Talk:Pit fiend - Revision history

MagiNinjA: /* Bat out of Hell */ lulz, signed

2008-01-05T07:03:16Z

Bat out of Hell: lulz, signed

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:03, 5 January 2008
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	*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)		*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)

	Hmm. Tricky. I just posted in a small paragraph above this section that with 40 turns each (which isn't very large, but yeah. >.>), I received pretty normal XP distribution for both the bat and the club. However, I have noticed monsters hitting me harder when I use the bat. So that's interesting.		Hmm. Tricky. I just posted in a small paragraph above this section that with 40 turns each (which isn't very large, but yeah. >.>), I received pretty normal XP distribution for both the bat and the club. However, I have noticed monsters hitting me harder when I use the bat. So that's interesting. --[[User:MagiNinjA\|User:MagiNinjA/sig]] 00:03, 5 January 2008 (MST)

	=Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?=		=Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?=

MagiNinjA: /* Bat out of Hell */

2008-01-05T07:03:03Z

Bat out of Hell

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:03, 5 January 2008
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	*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)		*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)

			Hmm. Tricky. I just posted in a small paragraph above this section that with 40 turns each (which isn't very large, but yeah. >.>), I received pretty normal XP distribution for both the bat and the club. However, I have noticed monsters hitting me harder when I use the bat. So that's interesting.

	=Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?=		=Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?=

MagiNinjA: /* XP Gains */

2008-01-04T21:10:42Z

XP Gains

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:10, 4 January 2008
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	******Just fought a "a stupen-ly goblin from some nightmare" and managed to score 300XP. The rewards may very well be ''Level6 - Level*10''. In other news, we have a ridiculous amount of bullet points. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:15, 15 December 2007 (MST)		******Just fought a "a stupen-ly goblin from some nightmare" and managed to score 300XP. The rewards may very well be ''Level6 - Level*10''. In other news, we have a ridiculous amount of bullet points. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:15, 15 December 2007 (MST)

	I recently tested 40 turns each with the bat and club (not changing any other gear) and while this isn't a huge set, the bat and club XP totals were relatively very close. In fact, the club came out on top by only 99 XP. So weapon bonuses other than +XP (of course) may have nothing to do with gains. --[[User:MagiNinjA~~\|User:MagiNinjA/sig~~]] 14:09, 4 January 2008 (MST)		I recently tested 40 turns each with the bat and club (not changing any other gear) and while this isn't a huge set, the bat and club XP totals were relatively very close. In fact, the club came out on top by only 99 XP. So weapon bonuses other than +XP (of course) may have nothing to do with gains. --[[User:MagiNinjA]] 14:09, 4 January 2008 (MST)

	=Bat out of Hell=		=Bat out of Hell=

MagiNinjA: /* XP Gains */ some spading

2008-01-04T21:09:19Z

XP Gains: some spading

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:09, 4 January 2008
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	******Hm. The lowest listed there is 308, so I'm wondering what the lower bound is. Perhaps ''level6'', and I just haven't seen/noticed/recorded a 300? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 04:02, 15 December 2007 (MST)		******Hm. The lowest listed there is 308, so I'm wondering what the lower bound is. Perhaps ''level6'', and I just haven't seen/noticed/recorded a 300? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 04:02, 15 December 2007 (MST)
	******Just fought a "a stupen-ly goblin from some nightmare" and managed to score 300XP. The rewards may very well be ''Level6 - Level*10''. In other news, we have a ridiculous amount of bullet points. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:15, 15 December 2007 (MST)		******Just fought a "a stupen-ly goblin from some nightmare" and managed to score 300XP. The rewards may very well be ''Level6 - Level*10''. In other news, we have a ridiculous amount of bullet points. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:15, 15 December 2007 (MST)

			I recently tested 40 turns each with the bat and club (not changing any other gear) and while this isn't a huge set, the bat and club XP totals were relatively very close. In fact, the club came out on top by only 99 XP. So weapon bonuses other than +XP (of course) may have nothing to do with gains. --[[User:MagiNinjA\|User:MagiNinjA/sig]] 14:09, 4 January 2008 (MST)

	=Bat out of Hell=		=Bat out of Hell=

Cristiona: /* Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle? */

2008-01-02T02:30:20Z

Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:30, 2 January 2008
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	This is all still speculation. And as above, it could be due to equipment that monsters have varying stats as you describe. And I haven't seen any of these monsters with elemental resistance (at least to fire damage, which I have). Maybe a screenshot or a double confirmation of this? --[[User:MagiNinjA\|MagiNinjA]] 18:54, 1 January 2008 (MST)		This is all still speculation. And as above, it could be due to equipment that monsters have varying stats as you describe. And I haven't seen any of these monsters with elemental resistance (at least to fire damage, which I have). Maybe a screenshot or a double confirmation of this? --[[User:MagiNinjA\|MagiNinjA]] 18:54, 1 January 2008 (MST)

			Sounds like confirmation bias to me. I believe Icy recorded two monsters with the exact same name giving different XP. Furthermore, every time I think I stumble onto a weak type or location, one comes along that stomps on my head. I honestly think all the powers are randomly generated, based on a seed of your stats. And that's ''all'' your stats, not just Str/Int/Ref.

			Also, this isn't straight scaling. A straight X-for-Y scaling would result in giving the same XP for every monster. Since these range from Level6 - Level10 in XP, it's pretty clear that their toughness and abilities while likewise be in a range. Also, also, please sign your contributions. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 19:30, 1 January 2008 (MST)

MagiNinjA: /* Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle? */

2008-01-02T01:54:02Z

Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:54, 2 January 2008
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	Scaling alone doesn't seem to be an adequate explanation for the various parameters of this monster (or rather monsters.) I'm pretty sure that the generated name has something to do with the stats of the monster, the drops (or lack of them) and the experience gained upon victory. For example I've observed that monsters "from Abaddon" appear to have a higher chance of dropping items after being defeated. I've also seen major fluctuations in strength, to-hit and evasion that don't square up with a monster which has its parameters solely determined by the player's stats. I've come across monsters here which couldn't hit my character for beans, inflicted a low amount of damage and/or couldn't dodge to save their life. I've also come across monsters that inflict high damage, get an unusual number of critical hits during combat, or that I barely can hit. The elemental resistances and weaknesses in particular have a strong chance of being linked to the name that is generated; I've witnessed fluctuations in both ice and fire damage I've inflicted. So far I've seen monsters with no resistance to fire or ice, monsters with 60% resistance to ice (+5 bonus damage being reduced to +2 bonus damage) and monsters with weakness against fire damage. Scaling si not a valid explanation for this.		Scaling alone doesn't seem to be an adequate explanation for the various parameters of this monster (or rather monsters.) I'm pretty sure that the generated name has something to do with the stats of the monster, the drops (or lack of them) and the experience gained upon victory. For example I've observed that monsters "from Abaddon" appear to have a higher chance of dropping items after being defeated. I've also seen major fluctuations in strength, to-hit and evasion that don't square up with a monster which has its parameters solely determined by the player's stats. I've come across monsters here which couldn't hit my character for beans, inflicted a low amount of damage and/or couldn't dodge to save their life. I've also come across monsters that inflict high damage, get an unusual number of critical hits during combat, or that I barely can hit. The elemental resistances and weaknesses in particular have a strong chance of being linked to the name that is generated; I've witnessed fluctuations in both ice and fire damage I've inflicted. So far I've seen monsters with no resistance to fire or ice, monsters with 60% resistance to ice (+5 bonus damage being reduced to +2 bonus damage) and monsters with weakness against fire damage. Scaling si not a valid explanation for this.

			This is all still speculation. And as above, it could be due to equipment that monsters have varying stats as you describe. And I haven't seen any of these monsters with elemental resistance (at least to fire damage, which I have). Maybe a screenshot or a double confirmation of this? --[[User:MagiNinjA\|MagiNinjA]] 18:54, 1 January 2008 (MST)

151.200.246.103 at 23:24, 1 January 2008

2008-01-01T23:24:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:24, 1 January 2008
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	In tests 2 and 3, I hit much more frequently than in 1 and 4. I wonder if the fiends scale to ''all'' your stats: the +10% from the bat may give the fiends a huge bonus, as opposed to the flat boost of the Truepenny. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 21:56, 17 December 2007 (MST)		In tests 2 and 3, I hit much more frequently than in 1 and 4. I wonder if the fiends scale to ''all'' your stats: the +10% from the bat may give the fiends a huge bonus, as opposed to the flat boost of the Truepenny. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 21:56, 17 December 2007 (MST)
	*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)		*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)


			=Possible connection between generated name and various aspects of battle?=

			Scaling alone doesn't seem to be an adequate explanation for the various parameters of this monster (or rather monsters.) I'm pretty sure that the generated name has something to do with the stats of the monster, the drops (or lack of them) and the experience gained upon victory. For example I've observed that monsters "from Abaddon" appear to have a higher chance of dropping items after being defeated. I've also seen major fluctuations in strength, to-hit and evasion that don't square up with a monster which has its parameters solely determined by the player's stats. I've come across monsters here which couldn't hit my character for beans, inflicted a low amount of damage and/or couldn't dodge to save their life. I've also come across monsters that inflict high damage, get an unusual number of critical hits during combat, or that I barely can hit. The elemental resistances and weaknesses in particular have a strong chance of being linked to the name that is generated; I've witnessed fluctuations in both ice and fire damage I've inflicted. So far I've seen monsters with no resistance to fire or ice, monsters with 60% resistance to ice (+5 bonus damage being reduced to +2 bonus damage) and monsters with weakness against fire damage. Scaling si not a valid explanation for this.

Cristiona: /* Bat out of Hell */

2007-12-18T05:46:25Z

Bat out of Hell

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:46, 18 December 2007
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	In tests 2 and 3, I hit much more frequently than in 1 and 4. I wonder if the fiends scale to ''all'' your stats: the +10% from the bat may give the fiends a huge bonus, as opposed to the flat boost of the Truepenny. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 21:56, 17 December 2007 (MST)		In tests 2 and 3, I hit much more frequently than in 1 and 4. I wonder if the fiends scale to ''all'' your stats: the +10% from the bat may give the fiends a huge bonus, as opposed to the flat boost of the Truepenny. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 21:56, 17 December 2007 (MST)
			*More weirdness, let me know if you notice this: when I'm using the bat, I seem to get a better XP distribution, and seem to get the higher values (450+) than when I use the [[ethereal club\|club]]. The club seems to skew towards the lower bounds. Could just be confirmation bias, though. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:46, 17 December 2007 (MST)

Cristiona: /* Bat out of Hell */ Some data

2007-12-18T04:56:51Z

Bat out of Hell: Some data

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 18 December 2007
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	I'm thinking you may be on to something, Jesus. I switched to an Ethereal Club, and the damage I take seems to have dropped considerably. Hard to tell because of monster variance, but is this worth looking into? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)		I'm thinking you may be on to something, Jesus. I switched to an Ethereal Club, and the damage I take seems to have dropped considerably. Hard to tell because of monster variance, but is this worth looking into? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)
	I'm thinking '''yes'''. The other day, I tried the bat again, and holy crap! With truepenny, I'm still taking anywhere from 2 to 9 elemental damage, and a solid 1 for non-elemental criticals. With the bat, I took a non-elemental critical that did '''18''' damage. Elemental shots were in the 8-16 range. It's definitely more damage, but I don't believe there's any extra XP earned -- top XP remained level10. With truepenny, my HP goes up and down, but generally remains pretty full. With the bat, it would fluctuate too, but the trend was definitely downwards. If I were level 50 and got no HP recovery from levels, I don't think I'd be able to adventure in the Pit indefinitely. With truepenny, that's not a problem. --[[User:Jesus\|Jesus]] 02:04, 17 December 2007 (MST)		I'm thinking '''yes'''. The other day, I tried the bat again, and holy crap! With truepenny, I'm still taking anywhere from 2 to 9 elemental damage, and a solid 1 for non-elemental criticals. With the bat, I took a non-elemental critical that did '''18''' damage. Elemental shots were in the 8-16 range. It's definitely more damage, but I don't believe there's any extra XP earned -- top XP remained level10. With truepenny, my HP goes up and down, but generally remains pretty full. With the bat, it would fluctuate too, but the trend was definitely downwards. If I were level 50 and got no HP recovery from levels, I don't think I'd be able to adventure in the Pit indefinitely. With truepenny, that's not a problem. --[[User:Jesus\|Jesus]] 02:04, 17 December 2007 (MST)

			*This really hurts, so I'm not going to run a hundred tests...

			Test 1
			Equipment: Bat out of Hell, Ebon Eye, ''nothing'' else
			Effects: Purple Cowardice, Air Shield, Little Yellow Indifferent, UW: Self-Balancing, UA: Resistance, Metal Detector
			Damage received: 111+77(fire), 146+107(ice), 169+126(fire), 472(crit) --I'm dead

			Test 2
			Equipment: [[steel knuckles]], Ebon Eye, ''nothing'' else
			Effects: as above
			Damage received: 60+(39 acid) --''It's'' dead

			Test 3
			Equipment: [[the whole nine yards]], Ebon Eye, ''nothing'' else
			Effects: as above
			Damage received: 59+32(ice), 75+55(acid) --It's dead

			Test 4
			Same as Test 1
			Damage received: 140+102(fire), 124+88(fire), 128+92(ice), 93+62(ice) --I'm dead

			Yeah, there's got to be something going on with the bat. For the record, my resistances:
			Fire resistance: 15%
			Ice resistance: 15%
			Electric resistance: 15%

			In tests 2 and 3, I hit much more frequently than in 1 and 4. I wonder if the fiends scale to ''all'' your stats: the +10% from the bat may give the fiends a huge bonus, as opposed to the flat boost of the Truepenny. [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 21:56, 17 December 2007 (MST)

Jesus: /* Bat out of Hell */

2007-12-17T09:04:14Z

Bat out of Hell

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:04, 17 December 2007
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	=Bat out of Hell=		=Bat out of Hell=
	I'm thinking you may be on to something, Jesus. I switched to an Ethereal Club, and the damage I take seems to have dropped considerably. Hard to tell because of monster variance, but is this worth looking into? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)		I'm thinking you may be on to something, Jesus. I switched to an Ethereal Club, and the damage I take seems to have dropped considerably. Hard to tell because of monster variance, but is this worth looking into? [[User:Cristiona\|Cristiona]] 22:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)
			I'm thinking '''yes'''. The other day, I tried the bat again, and holy crap! With truepenny, I'm still taking anywhere from 2 to 9 elemental damage, and a solid 1 for non-elemental criticals. With the bat, I took a non-elemental critical that did '''18''' damage. Elemental shots were in the 8-16 range. It's definitely more damage, but I don't believe there's any extra XP earned -- top XP remained level10. With truepenny, my HP goes up and down, but generally remains pretty full. With the bat, it would fluctuate too, but the trend was definitely downwards. If I were level 50 and got no HP recovery from levels, I don't think I'd be able to adventure in the Pit indefinitely. With truepenny, that's not a problem. --[[User:Jesus\|Jesus]] 02:04, 17 December 2007 (MST)