Difference between revisions of "Talk:Gyrodreidel"

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--[[User:Patojonas|Patojonas]] ([[User talk:Patojonas|talk]]) 20:17, 30 November 2012 (PST)
 
--[[User:Patojonas|Patojonas]] ([[User talk:Patojonas|talk]]) 20:17, 30 November 2012 (PST)
 +
 +
--------
 +
Some data I collected (on a thewsday) with total +23% chips. Critical Spin!/Critical Hit! are bold, damage on nun is ice type and critical hit! is also blue colored, chocolate coins is bold. nun, shin, hei, and gimmel are all in italics in all instances. Separated by level 6 and level 7 in case there's any level factor. Critical spin/hit gets double the range of regular on inspection, and I've found a rough estimate of critical spins occurring 10% of the time.
 +
 +
 +
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed">
 +
--[[User:Satan|Satan]] 3:01, 1 December 2012 (CST)
 +
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
 +
lv 6
 +
 +
 +
You spin the dreidel and lose a fistful of gelt. The experience teaches you something... probably something about beating up your enemies so they don't notice you spinning shin. In any case, your revelations is worth 17-25 XP.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
Critical Spin! You spin the dreidel and it comes up shin. You quickly distract your opponent, but the dreidel just comes back shin again. The experience teaches you something... probably about cheaters never winning or the value of using a loaded dreidel. In any case, the revelation is worth 46 XP.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.
 +
 +
You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 8-14 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 8-14 PP.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
Critical Hit! You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.
 +
 +
You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 20 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 20 PP.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
Critical Spin! The dreidel spins and spins until it lands gimmel up. Gelt rains from the sky! You collect 48 chocolate coins... errr, Chips. I mean Chips.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
The dreidel spins and spins until it lands gimmel up. You rake in the whole pot: 17-26 chocolate coins... errr, Chips. I mean Chips.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
You spin up a hei and win a fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 9-12 Chips.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
Critical Spin! You spin up a hei and win a double-fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 24 Chips.
 +
 +
 +
lv 7
 +
 +
 +
You spin up a hei and win a fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 13 Chips.
 +
 +
***
 +
 +
You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.
 +
 +
You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 1 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 1 PP.
 +
 +
(against demiurge, who has ice immunity)</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
----
 +
 +
Here's some data I collected on this skill:
 +
 +
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:180px">
 +
Levels 1-7, 15 and 16
 +
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
 +
Level 1
 +
 +
hei:6-11<br>
 +
crit hei:
 +
 +
shin:11-21<br>
 +
crit shin:30
 +
 +
gimmel:11-21<br>
 +
critical gimmel:22-30
 +
 +
nun:6-11<br>
 +
critical nun:
 +
 +
 +
Level 2
 +
 +
hei:6-11<br>
 +
crit hei:12
 +
 +
shin:12-22<br>
 +
crit shin:28
 +
 +
gimmel:12-22<br>
 +
critical gimmel:36
 +
 +
nun:6-11<br>
 +
critical nun:18-22
 +
 +
 +
Level 3
 +
 +
hei:7-12<br>
 +
crit hei:16-20
 +
 +
shin:13-23<br>
 +
crit shin:34-46
 +
 +
gimmel:13-23<br>
 +
critical gimmel:36-46
 +
 +
nun:7-12<br>
 +
critical nun:14-20
 +
 +
 +
Level 4
 +
 +
hei:7-12<br>
 +
crit hei:16
 +
 +
shin:14-24<br>
 +
crit shin:
 +
 +
gimmel:14-24<br>
 +
critical gimmel:28-38
 +
 +
nun:7-12<br>
 +
critical nun:14-18
 +
 +
 +
Level 5
 +
 +
hei:8-13<br>
 +
crit hei:
 +
 +
shin:15-25<br>
 +
crit shin:36-48
 +
 +
gimmel:15-25<br>
 +
critical gimmel:32-38
 +
 +
nun:8-13<br>
 +
critical nun:
 +
 +
 +
Level 6
 +
 +
hei:8-13<br>
 +
crit hei:20
 +
 +
shin:16-26<br>
 +
crit shin:
 +
 +
gimmel:16-26<br>
 +
critical gimmel:46-50
 +
 +
nun:8-13<br>
 +
critical nun:
 +
 +
 +
Level 7
 +
 +
hei:9-14<br>
 +
crit hei:28
 +
 +
shin:17-27<br>
 +
crit shin:54
 +
 +
gimmel:17-27<br>
 +
critical gimmel:34-54
 +
 +
nun:9-14<br>
 +
critical nun:22
 +
 +
 +
Level 15
 +
 +
hei:13-18<br>
 +
crit hei:26-34
 +
 +
shin:25-35<br>
 +
crit shin:52-68
 +
 +
gimmel:25-35<br>
 +
critical gimmel:62-70
 +
 +
nun:13-18<br>
 +
critical nun:28-36
 +
 +
 +
Level 16
 +
 +
hei:13-18<br>
 +
crit hei:30-34
 +
 +
shin:26-36<br>
 +
crit shin:54-72
 +
 +
gimmel:26-36<br>
 +
critical gimmel:52-64
 +
 +
nun:13-18<br>
 +
critical nun:32-36</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
High level alts, something seems to be affecting the Nun values, shouldn't be the foes since they were all cannonball and thus super weak and none of their parameters should surpass the level formula. One possible explanation is Nun having a formula different from Hei but by so little that only at high levels one can tell apart :S
 +
 +
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:180px">
 +
Levels 58-60 and 92
 +
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
 +
'''Blackmatter615'''
 +
 +
Level 58
 +
 +
hei:34-39<br>
 +
crit hei:68-76
 +
 +
shin:68-78<br>
 +
crit shin:136-142
 +
 +
gimmel:68-78<br>
 +
critical gimmel:136-156
 +
 +
nun:37-43<br>
 +
critical nun:78-86
 +
 +
 +
Level 59
 +
 +
hei:35-40<br>
 +
crit hei:70
 +
 +
shin:69-79<br>
 +
crit shin:
 +
 +
gimmel:69-79<br>
 +
critical gimmel:
 +
 +
nun:38-43<br>
 +
critical nun:80-86
 +
 +
Level 60
 +
 +
hei:35-40<br>
 +
crit hei:74-80
 +
 +
shin:70-80<br>
 +
crit shin:
 +
 +
gimmel:71-79<br>
 +
critical gimmel:154
 +
 +
nun:39-44<br>
 +
critical nun:
 +
 +
 +
'''Okarin'''
 +
 +
Level 92
 +
 +
hei:51-56<br>
 +
crit hei:
 +
 +
shin:102-112<br>
 +
crit shin:
 +
 +
gimmel:103-112<br>
 +
critical gimmel:
 +
 +
nun:56-62<br>
 +
critical nun:</div>
 +
</div>
 +
 +
And last but not least, values taken at level 9 from uses on the [[Bard]] boss, just using the skill and running away.
 +
 +
hei:43,43
 +
 +
shin:24,24,24,25,26,28
 +
 +
gimmel:86,86,86,86<br>
 +
critical gimmel: 172-196
 +
 +
nun:10-14
 +
 +
331 chips (43% bonus chips, can't remember if value on the left is before or after removing the chip bonus)
 +
 +
It is clear to me from experience that Hei and Gimmel values scale to the foe's chips parameter. It is also clear form this data that gimmel is double the value of hei when foe parameters are concerned. I was wearing the Axe Hero guitar so it firing the chips bonus song might have caused that 192 gimmel critical. Only happened once.
 +
 +
It is possible that the parameter is the mean value of the chip's range (ought to be some fixed value since the skill results stick to 1 number) but would require a foe with high chip values to have it's chip range spaded and also possible to kill with a low level so the level formula has lower values. [[User:Patojonas|Patojonas]]  07:42, 10 January 2014 (PST)

Latest revision as of 07:42, 10 January 2014

You take a couple spins with the shopkeeper. You end up down 10 silver stars, but get a great dreidel!

itemid 1969 go Apollo !

--Patojonas (talk) 20:17, 30 November 2012 (PST)

Some data I collected (on a thewsday) with total +23% chips. Critical Spin!/Critical Hit! are bold, damage on nun is ice type and critical hit! is also blue colored, chocolate coins is bold. nun, shin, hei, and gimmel are all in italics in all instances. Separated by level 6 and level 7 in case there's any level factor. Critical spin/hit gets double the range of regular on inspection, and I've found a rough estimate of critical spins occurring 10% of the time.


--Satan 3:01, 1 December 2012 (CST)

lv 6


You spin the dreidel and lose a fistful of gelt. The experience teaches you something... probably something about beating up your enemies so they don't notice you spinning shin. In any case, your revelations is worth 17-25 XP.

Critical Spin! You spin the dreidel and it comes up shin. You quickly distract your opponent, but the dreidel just comes back shin again. The experience teaches you something... probably about cheaters never winning or the value of using a loaded dreidel. In any case, the revelation is worth 46 XP.

You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.

You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 8-14 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 8-14 PP.

Critical Hit! You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.

You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 20 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 20 PP.

Critical Spin! The dreidel spins and spins until it lands gimmel up. Gelt rains from the sky! You collect 48 chocolate coins... errr, Chips. I mean Chips.

The dreidel spins and spins until it lands gimmel up. You rake in the whole pot: 17-26 chocolate coins... errr, Chips. I mean Chips.

You spin up a hei and win a fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 9-12 Chips.

Critical Spin! You spin up a hei and win a double-fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 24 Chips.


lv 7


You spin up a hei and win a fistful of gelt. Wait, that's not gelt, you were robbed! All you got was 13 Chips.

You spin the dreidel and it comes up nun. Doing nothing is boring, so you spin it again and it comes up nun.

You spin it again... and again... and again... until it wanders into a nearby puddle and creates a massive water spout, dousing your opponent for 1 damage and spritzing you refreshingly, restoring 1 PP.

(against demiurge, who has ice immunity)

Here's some data I collected on this skill:

Levels 1-7, 15 and 16

Level 1

hei:6-11
crit hei:

shin:11-21
crit shin:30

gimmel:11-21
critical gimmel:22-30

nun:6-11
critical nun:


Level 2

hei:6-11
crit hei:12

shin:12-22
crit shin:28

gimmel:12-22
critical gimmel:36

nun:6-11
critical nun:18-22


Level 3

hei:7-12
crit hei:16-20

shin:13-23
crit shin:34-46

gimmel:13-23
critical gimmel:36-46

nun:7-12
critical nun:14-20


Level 4

hei:7-12
crit hei:16

shin:14-24
crit shin:

gimmel:14-24
critical gimmel:28-38

nun:7-12
critical nun:14-18


Level 5

hei:8-13
crit hei:

shin:15-25
crit shin:36-48

gimmel:15-25
critical gimmel:32-38

nun:8-13
critical nun:


Level 6

hei:8-13
crit hei:20

shin:16-26
crit shin:

gimmel:16-26
critical gimmel:46-50

nun:8-13
critical nun:


Level 7

hei:9-14
crit hei:28

shin:17-27
crit shin:54

gimmel:17-27
critical gimmel:34-54

nun:9-14
critical nun:22


Level 15

hei:13-18
crit hei:26-34

shin:25-35
crit shin:52-68

gimmel:25-35
critical gimmel:62-70

nun:13-18
critical nun:28-36


Level 16

hei:13-18
crit hei:30-34

shin:26-36
crit shin:54-72

gimmel:26-36
critical gimmel:52-64

nun:13-18

critical nun:32-36

High level alts, something seems to be affecting the Nun values, shouldn't be the foes since they were all cannonball and thus super weak and none of their parameters should surpass the level formula. One possible explanation is Nun having a formula different from Hei but by so little that only at high levels one can tell apart :S

Levels 58-60 and 92

Blackmatter615

Level 58

hei:34-39
crit hei:68-76

shin:68-78
crit shin:136-142

gimmel:68-78
critical gimmel:136-156

nun:37-43
critical nun:78-86


Level 59

hei:35-40
crit hei:70

shin:69-79
crit shin:

gimmel:69-79
critical gimmel:

nun:38-43
critical nun:80-86

Level 60

hei:35-40
crit hei:74-80

shin:70-80
crit shin:

gimmel:71-79
critical gimmel:154

nun:39-44
critical nun:


Okarin

Level 92

hei:51-56
crit hei:

shin:102-112
crit shin:

gimmel:103-112
critical gimmel:

nun:56-62

critical nun:

And last but not least, values taken at level 9 from uses on the Bard boss, just using the skill and running away.

hei:43,43

shin:24,24,24,25,26,28

gimmel:86,86,86,86
critical gimmel: 172-196

nun:10-14

331 chips (43% bonus chips, can't remember if value on the left is before or after removing the chip bonus)

It is clear to me from experience that Hei and Gimmel values scale to the foe's chips parameter. It is also clear form this data that gimmel is double the value of hei when foe parameters are concerned. I was wearing the Axe Hero guitar so it firing the chips bonus song might have caused that 192 gimmel critical. Only happened once.

It is possible that the parameter is the mean value of the chip's range (ought to be some fixed value since the skill results stick to 1 number) but would require a foe with high chip values to have it's chip range spaded and also possible to kill with a low level so the level formula has lower values. Patojonas 07:42, 10 January 2014 (PST)

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